Cinema and photography came first, years before either was work. Framing, composition, colour, the way a shot moves. Technology ran alongside them, in video games and computers, and it is the more logical half of how he thinks.

At Huia, where he joined in 2013 and spent eight years, six as partner, he worked at the intersection of creative direction and technology, designing and building websites, apps and interactive experiences using WebGL, facial recognition and machine learning for brands including Petrobras, O Boticário, Tramontina, Sicredi and Mondelez. The habit he still works by came from there: build a rough one early and look at it.

At Azion Technologies, he built the design operation from scratch inside a company of engineers, growing it to fourteen people across five disciplines. He worked across product and brand, designing everything from the platform interface and documentation to its CLI and other tools used by engineers.